Flarf is Nonceptualism vs. a Conceptual's Poetics = LangPo's Bastards Hit Puberty

In what I would have considered an unlikely turn of events, a online debate (or simply sometimes militant compare and contrast session) between Flarf and Conceptual Poetry is underway. Thus far, I would have to say that the debate is less about the differences between the two practices, and more about the differences between the practicioners, though perhaps the line is thin. Occasionally, a third, fourth, or fifth party weighs in... most often to object to the existence of the debate, with some even seeming to prefer that neither practice existed at all.

I disliked these 3rd party reminders from the outside world, these supposedly impending contingencies. They impose without any alternative implications. It would seem an increasingly common reaction toward many poet's/artist's frustrations with such specific debates. It's not that what they say isn't true, but that its relevance is superficial: there are omitted, ignored and rejected factors in every debate, as a debate is defined by the examination of a confrontation taking place along specific boundaries of certain entities.

Highlights:
Flarf is Projective Verse. Conceptual Poetry is the New York School. - Ron Silliman

Conceptual Poetry is the new Language Poetry. Flarf is the new New York School. -Andy Dander

Conceptual poetry
is like saying

'hot heat'

flarf is more like
constructing the sound
of a human sneeze
out of dog barks. -Phaneronoemikon

CON POET POWER! -Nicholas Manning

From now on the collective formerly known as Flarf will be known as the Nonceptualists. - K. Silem Mohammad

Nonceptualist Manifesto Part I -K. Silem Mohammad

new movements like Conceptual Writing or Flarf are the correct responses for our time. If writing is not taking these new conditions into its poetics, it simply cannot be considered contemporary. -Kenneth Goldsmith

Now Even More!:

I don't much give a damn whether Flarf or contemporary "Conceptual Poetry" correspond to the poetics of two generations back or not. Kind of a dull question, in my view. -Curtis Faville

We do not have a few vocal male figures to name us something, to decide who's in and who's out of the group, to allow some to talk and others to be silenced. -Erika Staiti

Are these really the kinds of fruitless (and suffocatingly ameri-centric) mappings you want us to engage in? -Brent Cunningham (to Ron Silliman)

Poetry is divided into:
(a) belonging to the emperor,
(b) embalmed,
(c) tame, 
(d) sucking pigs, 
(e) sirens,
(f) fabulous, 
(g) the sounds of human sneezes constructed out of the barks of stray dogs,
(h) included in the present classification,
(i) frenzied, 
(j) innumerable,
(k) drawn with a very fine camelhair brush,
(l) et cetera, 
(m) having just broken the water pitcher,
(n) that from along way off look like flies on shit,
(o) those brands owned by the corporations Monsanto, Kraft Foods (i.e., Post Alpha-Bits), Dole, Tyson Foods, Nestle, Sysco, DuPont, Archer Daniels Midland, Sunkist, Chiquita, Kellogg's, Unilever, and The News Corporation.

- Angela G.

UPDATE EDIT:

OFFICIAL(esque):

Having some unseen impulse, Kasey Mohammad once again repositions the poetry formerly known as Flarf. Read the revisions: Nonceptualists Now Transceptualists. Related fields being Misceptualism/ Unceptualism/ Noceptualism/ Someceptualism/ Windsweptualism/ & Flarfing as a product of a Poetic('s) Disorder [to promote word loss].  

Movietelling on the Internet: a query

Goooaaalll!!! (part 1) by Mathew Timmons and Stan Apps is something like Movietelling Flarf. At first I was disappointed by what seemed to be a tone of sarcasm, delivered as commercials segue into a soccer match (channel surfing). I was bracing myself for a line-up of punchlines. The humor is certainly there, but the repetition and re-working of lines, the constant reapplication of 'products' being misrepresented, finally gets to me. I'm sucked in. It's also the first instance I've seen of multiple speakers providing the narrative and character voices, which is further complicated by something I read about Stan Apps contribution being played as a recording while Mathew Timmons performed live at their performance at Betalevel for Da Benshi Code in Los Angeles. (Though I think this had more to do with Stan Apps being out of town). 

Since there isn't much ambient sound on the recording, I'm guessing they made this performance privately, primarily intending, I assume, to post it online. Currently, there are no youTube listings for "Movietelling." For "Neo-Benshi," there are two excerpts of David Larsen's  performance "Paris of Troy." For "Benshi," there are some postings in Spanish which I don't believe have any relevance here, as well as one old news broadcast explaining the function of 'katsubenshi," and the performances of Stan Apps and Mathew Timmons. 

That's it. I find this surprising considering how many folks I know of who've performed in this medium, and how many times a video recorder was present. 

There are a variety of Movietelling performances I've heard or read about that I would very much like to see, but may never have the chance unless someone were to post them online. 

Walter Lew's shadoWord productions, who I continue to perform with, is planning an online release, of one kind or another, this summer. At the very least, I know it will involve the digital publication of many of our scripts, as well as vidcaps and photographs from the performances. 

(EDIT): As I was making the links for this post, I stumbled upon Da Benshi Code's website, where one can find no less than 8 video recordings of live Movietelling.